After defeating West Virginia,

By Yoni Cohen on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 09:30:29 PM EST

Syracuse is two wins away from the NCAA Tournament. The first will likely come at DePaul. The second might occur in the Big East Tournament.

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After defeating West Virginia, | 27 comments (27 topical, 0 hidden)

Rushing the Court (none / 0)

How sad is it that Syracuse fans rushed the court after handing a team their 4th lose in their last 5 games. What happened to acting like you've been their?

by KBWpitt on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 10:13:49 PM EST

Syracuse is in (none / 0)

Syracuse should make it to the NCAA tourney easily. What could keep them out? The only teams they lost were Uconn(2), Nova, Pitt, Florida, Bucknell, Cincinnati, and Seton Hall. That's eight losses , but they play in the best conference and none of those teams are walkovers.  

by Anonymous Hero on Mon Feb 20, 2006 at 11:33:02 PM EST

They're still on the bubble (none / 0)

because of a lack of quality Ws. Before this the best team they had beaten was Louisville, and outside of them and Notre Dame, it's been nothing but teams like Manhattan (who took Cuse into OT). Today should help them out tremendously in that category.

by Anonymous Hero on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 12:46:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Cincy (none / 0)

They had beaten Cincy on the road.  And they beat them in a rout on the road.  That was definitely their best win of the year before this.

Still, they are definitely a bubble team, but assuming they can take care of DePaul, they'll end the season .500 in the BE, with 20 wins, and in the top 35 (maybe top 30 even) in the RPI.

Here's hoping that's an NCAA resume.


by jsnoop36 on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 12:52:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I hate Syracuse (none / 0)

but I fail to understand how other conferences can throw up teams with 80 RPIs, three or four bad losses and only quality wins over just as unimpressive conference foes yet still be called on the bubble or just in and Syracuse is being left out of brackets.

When was the last time a major conference team with an RPI under 40 got left out?  I think this win iced it for them.


by Alan on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 03:02:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Iced? (none / 0)

What might hurt Syracuse is the number of BE teams. If Syracuse makes it in they might have to do it as the 9th Big East team. Nova, UConn, Pitt, WVU, Georgetown, Marquette, Marquette, Seton Hall and Cincinnati all have arguments to make the tournament ahead of the Orange. Would the committee be willing to take nine teams?

I think Syracuse still needs a strong BE Tournament run to seal the deal.


by KBWpitt on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:08:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

10 teams (none / 0)

I just realized that I listed 10 teams there. So, would Syracuse make it in if they were the 10th BE team?

by KBWpitt on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:10:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

actually 9 (none / 0)

You listed Marquette twice.

Syracuse is the 9th team from the Big East.  All 8 of the teams ahead of them, belong ahead of them.  It is a question as to whether the Selection Committee will allow 9 teams from the Big East in or not.


by jsnoop36 on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:24:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks (none / 0)

Maybe I was just trying to make up for Marquette being left out of the polls this week.

It will be interesting to see how the selection committee handles the Big East this year. A precedent has not been set for this before.

Now, the selection committee stands by always trying to take the BEST teams. So, nine Big East teams should not matter. But that's all in theory.


by KBWpitt on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:54:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Just a heads up: (none / 0)

The record for most teams in the NCAA Tournament for one conference is seven, pulled off by the Big Ten (several times) and the Big East (once). In my bracket (posted on the front page of cincinnati.rivals.com) I actually have the Big East getting an obscene eleven teams in (and I don't even look at the names of the teams until the very end, nor do I look at the conferences the teams are in until it comes time to actually place the teams in the field, as it's necessary to keep teams in the same conference as far apart as possible), and I have the Big Ten getting eight as well (the oft-mentioned seven, plus Minnesota). One thing to note, by the way, is that Notre Dame (yes, I have them in the Dance) has played the second-highest percentage of teams in the top 50 in the RPI in the entire country. Highest? Yep, you guessed it, Connecticut, who happens to take the same floor as them at the Hartford Civic Center tonight!

by SetonHallPirate on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 12:44:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

9 is the max for the Big East (none / 0)

Pirate fan, I checked out your bracket.

http://cincinnati.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=515201

I have to say though as a UofL fan, in NO way will my Cards be in the tournament. They simply don't deserve it. Neither does Notre Dame unless they literally win out until the Big East tournament final.

I also find it hilarious how people even dare mention a Nebraska (only 9th best Big 12 RPI, over 100) or a 13-10 Stanford (89 RPI) who lost to provisional UC-Davis. The same applies though to Notre Dame (13-10 (4-8), 90 RPI) or UofL (4-8 Big East, 67 RPI). The truth is none of those teams deserve in.

I think the Big East currently should get 9, and very well might unless UC or Syracuse tanks.

Lunardi's not joking when he says there are a lack of deserving bubble teams this year!


by Anonymous Hero on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 05:39:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm a firm believer of... (none / 0)

...looking at the entire body of work, game-by-game. Seriously, only three teams in the entire country have played more than half of their games (Connecticut, Notre Dame, West Virginia) against teams in the Top 50 in the RPI, and yet due to the fact that they have so many cupcakes on the schedule, they have the 38th, 27th, and 45th-toughest schedules in the country. Seriously, should a win over a bad 11-12 Utah team (such that Arizona has, and their schedule is littered with such teams) be that much better than a win over a 5-18 Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne squad? Here's my two cents, and this one is just a thought...what if the NCAA only redid the RPI such that a .500 team or below was treated as a winless team in the RPI (in all three factors), and beyond that, .500 would be subtracted from all team's winning percentages, and the result would be multiplied by two...just a thought.

by SetonHallPirate on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:37:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Me too (none / 0)

I hate syracuse too. By the way, did you know that boeheim's sister got hired to coach a semi-pro game in the ABA for the Maryland Nighthawks. They beat some 2-21 team.

by Anonymous Hero on Sun Mar 05, 2006 at 09:28:24 PM EST
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Re: Cinci (none / 0)

And Cinci routed them at the Carrier Dome... The Orange may get in, but probably need Seton Hall or Cinci to hit the wall and fall behind them in the standings.  Let's be honest; they consistently fall behind early in games and aren't very good.  Maybe they'll thrive under lower expectations

by deacondrake on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:11:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

they've played awful (none / 0)

I'm not saying they haven't played awful this year...or that they deserve a tourney birth, cause I'm not really very sure they do.  They have been absolutely blown out in their games against UConn and Nova...not even looking remotely competitive.  In what was clearly their biggest game of the year, at home against Cincy, they got completely embarassed and annihilated and got booed off the court by the Carrier Dome crowd.  They had a relatively easy out-of-conference schedule and almost blew games to Manhattan and Cornell of all teams.  They needed OT to beat Rutgers at home.  They have one good player and 0 consistent players on their roster.  I mean, they are a mess.

And clearly the 9th best Big East team.  So, we'll see what happens.  I don't think they are actually good enough to warrant a tourney birth, but I think somehow their resume is at this point.


by jsnoop36 on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 10:28:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Time to explain (none / 0)

I'm usually more than fair about Syracuse on this site but now i get to play Syracuse defender..

Will everyone please look at who Syracuse has played in the BE..you tell me which schedule is harder in BE play..

Uconn Twice, Nova Twice, WVU, Pitt, Cincy twice,  Gtown, ND, Rutgers, USF, Depaul, Lousiville, St Johns  

or

USF twice, St Johns twice, Rutgers twice, Marquette, Nova,  Providence, Uconn, Depaul Pitt, Cincy, WVU, ND..

Thats not even close..Lets be honest..With all this unbalanced scheduling if you gave Syracuse the bottom Schedule they would win at least 9 games and maybe ten. The bottom schedule is SHU by the way..

Its ridiculous..all of SU's losses are to teams that at one time were in the top 25 with the exception of SHU. Seton Hall has lost to ND, Northwestern, and Rutgers..and their marquee win is against NC State and WVU..a team SU beat also..To say Seton Hall is safely in the tourney and Syracuse is out is being blind to the schedule..At worst they are both on the bubble..not just SU..

Ill admit I'm a diehard SU fan and they are the 9th best team in the conference but lets give them some credit..Look who they had to play..Only Louiville and Syracuse can say they played or will play 4 games against top 5 teams this year..They are solidly in with last nights win against WVU and if they beat Depaul..by they way for all the SU schedule bashers..the Orange are top 10 in SOS..

One last point..some "experts" have Colorado in and the lovely 103 ranked schedule in the country with one win against OU to hang their hat on and Syracuse out..ridiculous


by RS on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 02:01:29 PM EST

They should be in (none / 0)

Syracuse has played the toughest schedule in the Big East...and one of the top 10 in the country.  They have only lost to teams who will be in the tournament.  If they win one more game, they are in...that happens against DePaul.  After that, they are playing for seeding.

by Anonymous Hero on Tue Feb 21, 2006 at 03:28:09 PM EST

This is crap, Big East teams just beat up Patsies (none / 0)

I am really getting sick of the big east! These teams like Pittsburgh and Syracuse play NOBODY! They have the easiest OOC schedules in D-1 basketball and then a team like syracuse goes 7-6 in the division and they are an NCAA team? BS. Lets take a look at this from a factual point of view.

Syracuse is 19-8, Pitt is 20-4. Thats 39 wins between them.....let's take a look at who these teams have beaten.
St. Peter's, Robert Morris, Maine, St. Francis, Auburn, Duquesne, Penn St, Vermont, Coppin st., South Carolina, Bethune Cookman, Cornell, Texas Tech, Siena, TCU, Colgate, Ill-chicago, Towson, Providence, Rutgers 2, Depaul, Notre Dame 2, South Florida, St. Johns.

Add it up...26 of 39 wins have come against teams that are BAD. Even if you want to say Notre Dame is a good team(which they aren't 13-12), they still benefit completely from the teams they play. If a team like ODU played in the Big East, scheduled nothing but patsies in the off season and the got lucky a couple times against WVU, Pitt, Marquette, Cincy, Louisville etc. and then beat the doormats, they could pull a even record too in the conference and go something like 23-8. Which is probably exactly what they will finish in the colonial, but won't have a chance for an at-large but a crappy team like Syracuse will, even though they don't deserve it.


by Anonymous Hero on Wed Feb 22, 2006 at 02:02:47 AM EST

Notre Dame (none / 0)

I do not like Notre Dame.  I think Irish teams are almost always overrated.  Having said that, I WOULD TAKE NOTRE DAME OVER OLD DOMINION on ANY FLOOR IN AMERICA.  In fact, I would take Notre Dame over the ENTIRE MOUNTAIN WEST CONFERENCE.  The Big East has scheduling issues as the poster above pointed out, this I will grant you, but there is absolutely no doubt it is far and away the strongest league.

by Anonymous Hero on Wed Feb 22, 2006 at 11:11:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

nice vendetta (none / 0)

you have against Syracuse and the BE..probably much more believable if you put your name on it instead of anonymous but I digress..i guess the other 13 games dont count that these teams won..oh by the way lets look at who two unnamed teams beat this year that by all accounts are comfortably in the tourney..Both teams are 18-6

Iowa State will fall in the same category as Notre Dame

Samford Binghamton,Tulsa, Coppin State, Southern, Oral Roberts, SMU, Texas Tech 2, Texas A&M2, Baylor 2, Oklahoma State Iowa State, IdahoState, Chaminade, Western Illionis, Pepperdine, No. Colorado, New Orleans, Yale, Nebraska 2, Texas A&M, Iowa St. 2, Texas Tech Oklahoma State, Missouri..

count it up thats 27 of 36 wins against teams 50 and below in the RPI...so whats my point? YOU CAN DO THIS WITH ANY TWO TEAMS..its ridiculous to just hand pick two big east teams and not show two big 12 teams doing the same thing or two Pac 10 teams or two ACC teams..I could go on..and I think we can all agree the BE is much better than the Big 12 this year..but keep up the BE bashing..its fine..I do love that Syracuse title in 2003 or Uconn in 2004 ..wait what conference did they come from?

the two teams are Kansas and Oklahoma by the way..


by RS on Wed Feb 22, 2006 at 11:52:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You have no idea... (none / 0)

Syracuse, Villanova, and Providence all have top 10 schedules.  Their out of conference schedules are fine, not overly difficult, but fine.  Look at who they have played in conference...the Big East has 7 ranked teams right now.  If the conference deserves 8 or 9 teams (based on the RPI) than they should get 8 or 9 teams...otherwise, do away with the RPI.  Syracuse, Pitt, and Providence for that matter (and probably South Florida) would destroy the best teams in the colonial...end of story.

by Anonymous Hero on Wed Feb 22, 2006 at 11:54:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ODU is one of the patsies (none / 0)

I think the problem with your argument, is that if Syracuse scheduled a team like ODU who you are complaining about, then that would just be another "Patsie" who they beat in the non-conference schedule.

With the real point being that they go undefeated against these out-of-conference Patsies, proving that they are better than the Patsies are.

Syracuse's two out of conference losses were against Florida and Bucknell.  Both top 25 teams and proof alone that they did play people out of conference.  Without having looked at ODU's schedule, I doubt that ODU played two top 25 teams out of conference.  Okay, I decided to look and they played Wisconsin.  However, in conference ODU also lost to a bunch more Patsies.  They lost to Drexel, Richmond, Hofstra (2), and UAB.  Wow...impressive.  Syracuse doesn't have a loss outside of the RPI Top 50 yet this year.  Granted they are only 2-8 vs. the RPI Top 50, but nonetheless, they've played 10 games against top competition.

And, I'm not quite sure where you get off insulting ND and Rutgers.  Both teams compete every single night against every one of the Big East schools including the top teams.  ND took UConn to overtime last night.  DePaul and South Florida are the only teams in the Big East that don't provide really stiff competition night in and night out.  And I'd still take DePaul or SF over ODU.


by jsnoop36 on Wed Feb 22, 2006 at 01:09:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Being a Cuse fan... (none / 0)

Don't know that I would take DePaul over ODU...ODU beat the Blue Demons by 44 in December.  And S. Florida is just plain awful.

However, you also cannot say that the 'Cuse doesn't deserve an at large bid...no one in the RPI top 30 has ever been denied a bid (since use began in 1999), and only in the most extreme of cases should they be.


by Anonymous Hero on Wed Feb 22, 2006 at 02:10:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

UConn, Notre Dame, and West Virginia (none / 0)

Are the three teams in the country to have played at least half of their games against the top 50 RPI teams in the country, and yet their strength of schedules are 39, 35, and 27, respectively, because those three teams have played so many 200+ teams (7, 7, and 8, respectively). Now tell me, is a win over a 13-13 St. Peter's squad (136 in the RPI) that much more impressive than a win over a 2-21 Prairie View A&M squad? According to the RPI, significantly, according to most of the world that actually has common sense, not at all.

by SetonHallPirate on Wed Feb 22, 2006 at 07:17:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pirate (none / 0)

You're exactly right that there is a better way than RPI to do strength of schedule.  Using loss probabilities based on Pomeroy or Sagarin would most likely be a HUGE improvement in accuracy.

Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen.  The selection committee aren't necessarily basketball experts and they sure as heck aren't math experts.  I think I'm happy though, that they use something like RPI at all, and acknowledge home/away and use stats rather than say, what college football voters do.


by Alan on Thu Feb 23, 2006 at 02:50:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

All I can say here is: (none / 0)

Forget about my Pirates...the way things look, we'll probably have to beat Cincinnati and Pitt, and win at least one (probably two) in the Big East Tournament. Short of that, Seton Hall Athletic Director Joe Quinlan ought to petition the NIT people to let us play our first round NIT game on Monday night, otherwise, the Devils are playing on Tuesday and Thursday, as well as the Nets on Wednesday.

by SetonHallPirate on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 08:28:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree (none / 0)

The Big East is annoying. All you hear about is how good the big east is blah, blah. I hope all the teams get whipped in the big dance

by Anonymous Hero on Sun Mar 05, 2006 at 09:31:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
After defeating West Virginia, | 27 comments (27 topical, 0 hidden)
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